MR3

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Permalink Reply by Jenny Anderson on March 1, 2010 at 14:23

While preparing my report, I also wanted to read over the presentations and check that I had things in the right order. I found that you can download an MP3 of Archbishop Mark's talk from The ABC Religion website (the article itself presents a very different perspective on the conference to what I myself experienced, but does offer the talk for download) . I have yet to find a transcript or audio version of Mgr Harbert's talk, but would love to hear that again too. Will let you know if I find it!

Permalink Reply by Fr Mick Mac Andrew on March 3, 2010 at 10:53

Thanks Jenny, it would be good to have Mons Harbert's talk as well as the Archbishop's.
I was interested in your comment about the BC Religion Programme's "very different" perspective on the issue than your own.
I maintain the ABC Religion Report's presenters should not have a perspective on the issue, but report, honestly and sincerely about an issue and allow listeners to have facts rather than opinion, the origins of which we will never know.

Permalink Reply by Jeffrey Pinyan on March 5, 2010 at 22:41

If you visit http://liturgy.nd.edu/webcatechesis/ you can listen to audio, watch video, or read transcripts of presentations given by four people (two speak about the nature of the new translation, one speaks about the musical setting of the new translation, and the fourth speaks about the Eucharistic Prayer).

Permalink Reply by Go Hiontach on March 9, 2010 at 15:39

Thanks for that linking URL tp Notre Dame. I read many but not all of the articles. Many were well expressed even if speciously argued. I had to laugh at the rationale for replacing "for you and for all" with "for you and for many". The author contends that many can have an "expansive" and "non restrictive" meaning. But, of course many does not mean all; it means many--no matter how expansive. Think natural numbers and real numbers. The kicker comes when the author sums up his evidence: "In all these instances, the word “many” is expansive, not restrictive. It doesn’t mean “only a few;” it means “lots”, and it is supposed to impress the reader with the size of the number" If he said, "many of these instances" and not "all of these instances" would his argument be diffeent? A performative critique is always best.

Permalink Reply by Jeffrey Pinyan on March 9, 2010 at 22:15

Go, the author didn't present any instances where "many" was being used restrictively; thus, it makes perfect sense to say "all these instances".

Jesus said "many". This word is used (in Greek, Latin, or whatever) in the Roman Canon (and its variants in the other Western Rites), in the anaphora of the D.L. of St. John Chrysostom, in the anaphora of the D.L. of Saint Basil, in the anaphora of the D.L. of St. James. I don't understand why in the late 20th and early 21st century Roman Catholics are suddenly clamoring for 'multis' to be translated as "all" ('omnibus') instead of "many"; where is the similar outrage among Eastern Catholics and the Orthodox?

Jesus did shed His blood for all (as the current translation says), but not all will receive the fruits of that sacrifice: not all will be saved. That should stir us to prayer and proclamation of the Gospel!

It's a sad fact that not everyone will be saved. This should make us pray all the more!

Permalink Reply by Bernice Marris on March 10, 2010 at 11:13

Jeffrey, Can we state as fact, no one can be saved? God's Mercy is infinite - not to be fathomed by human reason.

Sister Faustina, the great twentieth Saint, canonised by John Paul ll for her devotion to Divine Mercy exemplifies this in her Novena to the Divine Mercy which Jesus instructed her to write. (Diary lll, 57-65) The First Day of the Novena states "TODAY BRING TO ME ALL MANKIND, ESPECIALLY ALL SINNERS, AND IMMERSE THEM IN THE OCEAN OF MY MERCY'.

Permalink Reply by Jeffrey Pinyan on March 10, 2010 at 12:33

Jesus and St. Paul, among others in the New Testament, make it clear that not everyone will inherit the kingdom of God. See:

Matthew 7:13-23
Matthew 25:31-46
Luke 12:8-9
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Galatians 5:19-21
Revelation 20:15
Revelation 21:6-8

Simply put, if everyone is going to be saved, what sense is there in... well... anything? What sense is there in faith, hope, and love, if none of them matter, and we all get saved after all?